Katy Milkman, the James G. Dinan Professor at The Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania, host of Choiceology, Charles Schwab’s popular podcast on behavioral economics, the co-founder and co-director alongside Angela Duckworth of the Behavior Change for Good Initiative, and most recently, the author of How to Change: The Science of Getting From Where You are to Where You Want to Be.

Our conversation covers Katy’s path to studying change and her new book, which is framed around identifying obstacles to change and using scientific principles to get past those obstacles. We outline the eight obstacles in the book and dive in on the challenges of getting started, confidence, conformity, procrastination, laziness, and making changes last. Along the way, we touch on some applications of her research to investing and to her own life.